Uproar over rape case abortion comments

Eamon, I don't think you are correct on your timings there (at least for humans). Implantation occurs after around a week post-conception as far as I remember. I agree that the zygote formed at fertilisation constitutes a genetically new organism but I disagree with you terming a blastocyst/early embryo as a "baby". If you consider viable life to start pre-implantation, then you are wrong. Obviously the chances are much higher if conception has occurred. To apply a reductio ad absurdum approach, all contraceptives and male masturbation should be termed abortion as each has a finite probability of causing a child not to be born. Even eating some foods that decrease the probability of implantation would constitute abortion. I would probably say that gastrulation is the point of genuine viability, but I'm not sure how many people share that view; it can be a bit arbitrary. Out of interest, do you also consider 'the morning after pill' to constitute abortion? I think it is important to remember that early embryos have no brain/capacity for reasoning. That is in no way to excuse abortion but in attempting to, for want of a better word, "anthropomorphise" early-stage embryos, I believe you were being disingenuous. I agree that abortion is physically and potentially emotionally traumatic. On the other hand, those considerations must be weighed up against going through 9 months of pregnancy topped off with the pain and more extreme trauma of parturition. Add to that the fact that the pregnancy was enforced against your will and the trauma of abortion starts to pale in comparison. I agree with you about abortion being morally abhorrent. It does indeed constitute killing someone. On the other hand, you have to ask yourself where the greater good lies. Some countries have the death penalty - I disagree with that too, but it cannot be denied that a society can sometimes benefit by removing certain people from it. Death is extreme and I would say jail is better, especially if there is any risk of the wrong person being punished. Nevertheless, the death penalty shows that societies can choose to take people's lives for the general good. In general, I consider free access to abortion in other countries to have been the wrong choice. The cause is often advocated by neo-fascist militant feminists who demand equal rights except when that would disadvantage them, in which case they demand privileges “because they are women". Unfortunately, their idea of egalitarianism is often more like one of gender apartheid. The "woman's right to choose" is often quoted but that is merely a one of their lies that, after sufficient popular regurgitation, started to be accepted as an obvious truth. In reality, there is no rational basis for individuals to have such a 'right'. Nevertheless, society as a whole has the right to decide on such matters. As a free society, the Irish people should have the right to choose what is best for them. Imagine a married woman made pregnant through rape - that could end her marriage, resulting in other children being brought up in a one parent family, or generate a disfunctional family full of tension and guilt over any real or imagined differences in how the children were treated. Adoption is not an answer either as that is also extremely traumatic for a woman - and that would be top of the pregnancy. Although it is highly objectionable, abortion in reported rape cases should be an option for women after suitable counselling, in my opinion. The rape would have had to have been reported before the pregnancy could have been discovered and the woman should be severely punished under some new law to reflect such intentional homicide should she have been found to have acted dishonestly in order to get around the law. On the other hand, a prosecution case falling through should not sufficient to punish the woman - otherwise "reasonable doubt" of the man's guilt would lead to an automatic assumption of guilt in the woman. It would be difficult and require a lot of cross-border planning (there little point legislating/holding a referendum if someone can flout the law by getting a bus a few miles down the road), but it would probably be worth it. In conclusion, the picture is not as black and white as you paint it.

Conception is the very moment when the sperm meets the egg and the two become one fertilized embryo. The embryo is created outside the womb. The embryo then implants in the womb. Conception happens no later than a few hours following the act of sexual intercourse. The implantation of the embryo into the womb also happens no later than a few hours following sexual intercourse. It is a well proven scientific fact that a new person as been created at the very moment of conception that is before the embryo implants in the womb. Nobody has the right to take anybody else's life particularly those most vulnerable - babies. Secondly, if in the event of a conception of new life that has been created through the violent act of rape then the above fact still remains - a new life has been created. There are many options available for pregnant mothers in this instance. There are many local support groups who offer financial and emotional help. This mother needs help and she can only do this if she has choices. Killing the innocent baby within her takes away all her choices. She can with the right help raise her child. Or she can offer the child up for adoption. The very last thing she needs is to go through the double - trauma of abortion. That is the trauma of the rape and the trauma of the abortion. She will then have two traumas to deal with. Abortion never will undo the rape.

Mother/Isobel - two points. Firstly, this fallacious 'right to choose' nonsense is absolutely crazy - why should anyone have the right to choose whether someone lives or dies? The fact that it would be your own child makes that notion worse rather than making it more acceptable. There can be cases when killing is justified. Weighing up the pros and cons, WWII was probably justifiable in hindsight. WWI was not. There may be cases, such as rape, etc. where abortion could be justified in terms of the greater good of society - but it should never be a choice for a woman to make freely. Indeed, strict laws are needed to prevent such an eventuality. Should excuses such as "I'm not ready" or "it'd spoil my life/ruin my career/etc." ever be accepted as reasonable, then why shouldn't we be allowed to kill elderly parents to avoid having to care for them as they could ruin our social lives or become a drain on personal or state resources? Where is the moral difference? Where, even, is the genetic difference? You are as genetically related to a child as you are to a parent. The second thing I have an issue with is your nonsense about Britain. Why should somewhere in Ireland, or anywhere else, share the laws of Britain? To imply that such an international 'equal rights' framework exists in Britain is probably another fallacy as there are so many differences between laws in England/Wales and Scotland, for example. We are Irish and the Irish people are generally more socially conservative than British people. On one hand, the Catholic Church had a large say in the Free State when it initially adopted a constitution and started devising laws different to those in Britain. Yet I remember reading of Paisley's "Save Ulster from sodomy" campaign and there are many other socially conservative PUL people out there. The fact is that we have much more in common with each other than either 1) we do with the British, or, 2) the British have among themselves. Political affiliations should not be allowed to in any way interfere with decisions that transcend politics. It should be for Irish people to decide how to Irish society should evolve - not a bulk vote of English MPs whose agenda, in general, has very little interest in the Irish or their views on abortion or anything else. Don't get me wrong - I would consider myself fairly liberal and believe that some change should happen in this area. I just do not accept that English MPs by their weight of numbers or the duplicitous ravings of militant feminists should dictate the form that that change should take.

I feel that out of bad situstions good can come, its not the poor innocent child fault who if could speak would plead let me live, if u couldnt look after the child there is alot of people who cant have children would love the chance to love n care for this innocent child. Maybe someone could survey people who have had an abortion an ask them if a day goes by that they dont think abt there child and r full of resentment.

i do not think anyone should have an abortion i am 18 years of age and i had a beautiful baby boy 10 weeks ago and not one though off it went through my head, raped or not i believe that god sent if for u and i read in a angle book that babys pick there parents before there connived, & my baby is in childrens rvh at this moment and it kills me to even see a tube in his arm never mind getten a opp to kill him, hes the best thing that ever happend to me and wouldnt change him for the world u weast so much money on a abortion wen that money could go to sick children please think befor u act, you might of been raped and that is a terrible thing to g though but that baby will change ur life for the best. yes they might ask questions wen there older and it will be hard to explane but there always ways round it, if i could take on every baby thats sick or going to get aborted i would, youl be his mummy ul be his world now would u picture that u did keep it and in 10 years and u told him or her "i was thinking about abourting you" ? would that not break his/her heart, i hope u see this comment and really think that life goes on and it is ur choice and everyone can just give u adaptations but dont think with ur head think with ur heart